Digital Disruption

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Hey everyone!

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I'm super excited to be sitting down

with Kristian Venables.

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He's the co-founder of Radical Reality's,

a groundbreaking VR and AR group

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that's building immersive worlds

for brands like Disney, Coachella,

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meta and Walmart.

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If you know me, then you already know

I'm a big time skeptic of

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anything that smells like the metaverse,

and the recent news that meta itself

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has taken an ax to its metaverse division

only reinforces that point.

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But regardless of what's going on in

Zucker land, Christian is building

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some of the coolest virtual stuff

I've seen

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and is at the forefront of a bunch

of really interesting use cases.

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I want to ask him what he's seeing that

I'm not.

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Are there real uses for this stuff

that are more than gimmicks?

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And should this tech

be back on our radar in 2026?

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Let's find out.

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Christian.

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Thanks. So much for being here.

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Super excited

to have you just jumping right into it.

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I wanted to talk about XR.

I wanted to talk about the metaverse.

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Now, you know, the metaverse in particular

has had its brand take a beating

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in the last handful of years.

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And, you know, I'll be honest,

I'm one of the people holding the club.

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I have to say.

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But I wanted to ask you, you know,

what are some of the use cases or,

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you know, aspects of the technology

that the average person

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might not know about that

you're most excited about?

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It's a great question.

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And the phrase will definitely get

rebranded sooner or later.

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It's it's definitely, a vision

that a lot of people are heading towards.

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And it's definitely a future

that we'll get to eventually.

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It'll just be called something different.

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Absolutely.

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And for me, it's in two separate

kind of parts.

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There's the 3D explorable world

side of things, which is

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previously what it was really known for,

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and that was very exciting,

but did some great partnerships.

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Them built some great worlds

for people to explore

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and learn and get together

and do virtual conferencing.

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And it had its moments,

when we're all stuck inside.

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But for me,

the actual future side of things

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and what I want is it'll it'll manifest.

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It'll come around again, when we have,

the glasses that actually meet

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these kind of requirements

and expectations that we have.

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So I can definitely, as a designer,

imagine different pieces coming together

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and,

being able to walk around my real space

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and have these 3D spatial anchors

in different locations.

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So going away with the specific screens.

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But you're computing is

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is everywhere, and you'll be able to go

to a specific location.

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And that's where specific documents

will be or your calendars on this wall or,

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you know, if you're learning or,

you know, you're going through

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specific education or school,

you can have physics on one wall,

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chemistry on another, and biology

on another, and be able to spatially

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learn and understand and be able

to go to that specific location

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and things like that in the home,

you know, in your kitchen,

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you'll have kitchen based 3D anchors

for certain things.

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So recipe books, etc., etc..

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So this, this vision,

which we're definitely heading towards, of

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being able to get to that kind of future,

is, is what excites me the most

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and how I can be creative in that space

and utilize those tools

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to either be as efficient as possible,

or just have as much fun as possible.

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So so you mentioned,

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you know, it's a really compelling vision

and you mentioned a few use cases there.

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And you also mentioned this notion

of glasses, right.

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That, that when we're talking about,

you know, what sounds like augmented

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reality, it, it comes down to, you know,

the glasses that you're using and you, you

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you mentioned that they're

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continuing to get better,

but you know, from your perspective

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what's kind of the state of this hardware

right now.

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You know, what's come out in the past year

or so that has you excited?

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What should people know about it

in terms of where it's at?

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And, you know, maybe on the other side

what's still to come,

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like what's not quite possible yet

with the current technology.

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Yeah,

I think it's it's a really poignant topic.

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So I was very lucky enough to go

to, Media

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Connect this year

and try the new display glasses

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because they have,

clearly demonstrated that particular leap,

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you know, they have that full spectrum

in my mind of the VR headset

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with the quest three

and the fully immersive side of things

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where you can create anything you need

to explore boundless worlds and games,

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and then they completely control

the other side.

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So the Ray-Ban meta glasses

and now with the added display.

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So it's really, really interesting

having that compute on your face.

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So I, I've had these,

for the last two years and primarily

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because, my daughter was being born

and I wanted to capture my perspective

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of her growing up

without her realizing that I'm actually.

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Oh, look, a phone means camera,

which means you have to smile.

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I wanted to capture these moments

where I can just record

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or walk around and listen to to podcasts

and still have my ears free.

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For example, and parenting

and being a dad.

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So it's been, really interesting

having that technology there

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where I don't have to reach into my phone

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and I really feel like the display glasses

and this little milestone

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that we're at now, it's definitely,

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gunning for things like replacing

the Apple Watch, for example, where

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I obviously have one of those,

as well as a, as a, as a tech guy

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and being able to have

all of my notifications on there allow me

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to streamline my life and unsubscribe

from things that I don't need.

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And being able to access that and have it

seamlessly connected to my space

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and my world, means that I can do

what I need to do and be connected.

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But I can also switch that off as

and when I need to as well.

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So that's where I think we are now.

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And I think a year ago,

a Ryan was demonstrated

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as full a are spatially anchored glasses.

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And that's really, really interesting

because we're eventually going

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to have a pair of glasses and a form

factor like this that has all day

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battery life,

but also the compute power to be able

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to do exactly what the quest three does

now in that fully immersive environment.

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And I imagine they're going to be

maybe even a slightly larger version,

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you know, imagine, back to the future

two dark

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sort of chrome

visor across the face or a simple ski

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goggle, very lightweight

that you can actually wear all day.

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And that then gives access every day

access to most people for 3D.

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And that's

what's really missing at the moment.

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And one thing I was disappointed at,

but very happy

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about with the announcement of the Apple

Vision Pro was the

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the confirmation of the direction

that they're heading in that this

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technology that I've been playing with

and investing in for a number of years,

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that it's actually been obviously,

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recognized and,

and heading in that area of development.

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But the downside for me

was most of the 90%

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of the experiences in there were flat

2D iPad screens in 3D space.

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I want more 3D.

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I want people to access that

and play around with that,

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because if you've been in a VR headset,

you know what it's like.

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And that's the hardest thing when it's

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you're trying to convince others

of of the possibilities,

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they put it on their face

and they go, oh, I get it.

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I understand now, but until they have,

it is very difficult for people

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to understand how that fits.

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So, so that's one of the tricky parts

I find is it's so experiential, right.

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Like, you kind of have to put it

on your face to experience it.

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And, you know, for the,

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you know, the meta glasses

or some of the things you're describing,

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probably most of our audience

hasn't had a chance to, to wear them yet.

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And, you know, I'm curious

because these types of glasses,

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there's been waves of them for, you know,

all the way back to at least, you know,

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Google Glass, probably,

you know, close to 15 years ago.

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And so, for people

who haven't experienced it firsthand,

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you know,

how would you describe it to them

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in terms of why this time is different

or starting to be different

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if they're skeptical

from the waves of the past?

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Now, it's a really good point.

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Definitely diving into this

a little a little more, being able to

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see what notifications

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come up as

and when they do is really interesting.

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So for those that haven't either

seen them, basically

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it's only in one eye

that you have this display.

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And for you, when you're looking with both

eyes open, it just appears in the

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in the bottom corner for you,

which is really nice, really easy.

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And my, one of my co-founders

and I were both doing

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the same glasses experience

and we were like,

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what are the social impacts of this

when you're walking around and you're

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both reading notifications,

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but you're looking at each other

face to face, what does that look like?

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And your gaze seems to go down

to the left shoulder,

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so you can actually see when people

are making eye contact with you

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all reading, you know,

these notifications that are coming in.

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But having the, the use of,

things like Google Maps for example,

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or similar mapping

where you have a little,

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overview of where you need to go,

little left and right

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arrows are really, really useful

and really clear to be able to,

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pull in those

technologies as and when you need it.

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And it's, it's a whole new approach for,

notifications.

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And no one wants this dystopian world

of covering

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the entire space and ads and bright colors

and flashing vying for your attention.

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You want a very nice,

clean, streamlined, approach.

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That just gentle little nudge.

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This might be urgent,

you know, so things like the first

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five words of a message is going to be

the most important going forward.

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If this is the main way

that this is actually delivered, to you.

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But overall

it was a really nice experience.

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The glasses don't feel any different

to what I've gone on now.

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They look a little slightly thicker,

in depth and also in some other areas,

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but they are a really nice,

pair of glasses.

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But I think what really stole

the show was the neural wristband.

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The glasses is just half of the

of the actual journey.

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The the neural wristbands.

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Basically, it's just a wristband that,

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really understands

the gestures of your of your hand.

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So you can do these

essentially micro gestures or swiping,

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your thumb along

your, your finger to go left and right.

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And then sort of tapping your finger

and your index finger

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as a way of navigating this little menu

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that you have

in the corner of your glasses.

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So it's really, really nice to be able

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to come in and start to, very quickly

and very seamlessly.

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Like the reaction speed was,

was very, very quick.

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You were able to swipe

through the menus, click and

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what was really nice is

when I was trying to take photo,

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the little display shows a preview

of what you're seeing at the moment.

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One of the cameras is slightly off

centered for for these glasses, and you.

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Sometimes you can't quite line up

exactly center, but with the displays

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you can actually see where you are.

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And the nicest thing is, if you just pinch

and rotate your hand, it zooms in.

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And so you've really got

this physical dial motif,

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if you like, that is actually controlling

how that works.

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And same with zooming in on photos,

adjusting volume.

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Those really have some very nice impact.

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So and also

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being able to handwrite.

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So you'll be using just your,

just your hands

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or just holding a pencil gesture

and scribbling on the table.

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And it'll be able to write out

response to a message.

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So you'll be able to see people

walking down the street

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responding and swiping and indicating,

to the glasses,

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using those kinds of micro gestures

and being able to machines, being able

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to read us and understand

us a bit more is really exciting.

00;11;23;19 - 00;11;28;18

And being able to, respond to

that is, is very cool.

00;11;28;21 - 00;11;30;03

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So you've mentioned now, Christian,

a handful of ways that you're using it,

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whether it's, you know, the camera

or notifications, you know, writing maps,

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you were to take these off tomorrow

and or, you know, you leave them behind,

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you know, at your house

when you go out, what

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what are the biggest things that you would

miss and say, oh, like that?

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The way I'm using

this has changed my life for the better,

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that if I don't have this,

you know I'm really missing it.

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Yes. It's it's almost the thing

with the latest technology

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and having it now and getting used to it

and society, you know,

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relying on your phone, Google Maps,

and all of these things, it's

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as soon as you take it

away, it's an instant shock to the system.

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Everybody knows,

you know, you leave your phone at home.

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Oh, no, I can't continue.

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They've got emails on there.

I've got messages.

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I've got my diary.

There's just everything.

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So the more reliance that we have

on the technology

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of those glasses going forward is

going to be this the same, same approach.

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You leave those at home

or when commuting in London, for example,

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you leave your noise canceling headphones

and you're on the tube.

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It's exactly the same approach.

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You, you, you become reliant

on that particular technology.

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And yes, it feels like a house of cards.

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These things start to stack up

and suddenly you know, something goes down

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and we're all going back

to, you know, handwriting by candlelight.

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It's, so it's, really interesting

how reliant we are on these tools.

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And I've conversations

with my wife regularly.

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She still has a paper diary,

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but also a full Google calendar with

everything and multiple things syncing.

00;13;29;00 - 00;13;33;11

So she still has that

that to two sides of, of things.

00;13;33;11 - 00;13;36;11

And I definitely see

and I've been thinking about this and

00;13;36;11 - 00;13;40;13

speaking about this for a while now,

but in general with

00;13;40;13 - 00;13;44;05

with how AI is being implemented,

I imagine,

00;13;44;05 - 00;13;48;04

a rift that is actually starting

in this, this, these clear two divisions.

00;13;48;04 - 00;13;54;03

So on one side

we have the artisanal hand sculpted vases.

00;13;54;03 - 00;13;57;26

You know, you've got violin making, opera

and improv theater,

00;13;57;29 - 00;14;01;14

very,

very human things and very, with mistakes

00;14;01;14 - 00;14;06;06

but relished and actually that that adds

value to that versus the other side

00;14;06;06 - 00;14;11;10

where everything is generated very quickly

in real time, is personalized.

00;14;11;10 - 00;14;15;06

It's, you know, a sort of,

a Netflix style thing.

00;14;15;06 - 00;14;19;01

But I want to have my favorite actor

in my favorite show

00;14;19;01 - 00;14;22;01

that's no longer running, and it's

generating as you're watching it.

00;14;22;05 - 00;14;26;21

So I can definitely see this, this

massive, rift between these two worlds

00;14;26;21 - 00;14;29;28

and people just picking sides

because that's what I know and love.

00;14;30;01 - 00;14;31;13

That's what I want to do.

00;14;31;13 - 00;14;35;11

I'm going to be a, an artist that

the paints with oils, and that's fine.

00;14;35;11 - 00;14;37;16

I'm going to continue to do that.

00;14;37;19 - 00;14;39;17

But for me, I feel like

00;14;39;17 - 00;14;41;27

I'm might not be the only one,

but one of the individuals

00;14;41;27 - 00;14;46;06

that is trying to bridge that gap is,

how can we use these technologies to

00;14;46;09 - 00;14;49;15

try new things, discover new things,

not necessarily replace,

00;14;49;15 - 00;14;53;00

but to be able to augment

and use these tools

00;14;53;00 - 00;14;55;29

to be able to do

things that have never been done before.

00;14;56;03 - 00;14;58;01

And that's definitely how I've had, taken

00;14;58;01 - 00;15;02;04

that approach with my personal work

and sculpture and designing.

00;15;02;07 - 00;15;06;00

Well, I'm glad you brought that up,

because, you know, as you were talking, I.

00;15;06;03 - 00;15;07;06

You know, it's thinking about what

00;15;07;06 - 00;15;11;08

you've been doing with radical realities

and, an artistic approach, I guess.

00;15;11;08 - 00;15;15;21

But in a if I can call it a virtual space

or in a medium or a canvas

00;15;15;21 - 00;15;17;28

that's, you know,

historically never existed before.

00;15;17;28 - 00;15;19;28

So, are you working

00;15;19;28 - 00;15;24;11

largely through these,

you know, types of glasses and wearables?

00;15;24;11 - 00;15;27;13

And you know what what,

what are you bringing,

00;15;27;13 - 00;15;31;14

you know, to this medium

in that artistic space?

00;15;31;17 - 00;15;33;06

So we,

00;15;33;06 - 00;15;37;07

the culmination of how obviously

radical reality's got together

00;15;37;07 - 00;15;41;21

was that we were all using,

VR very powerfully, quite, quite a lot.

00;15;41;21 - 00;15;45;16

So in, via Instagram,

we're sharing what we're doing

00;15;45;23 - 00;15;50;12

and just putting our work out there

and seeing that, these are two other,

00;15;50;12 - 00;15;54;23

VR power users as well,

and using a program called Gravity Sketch,

00;15;54;23 - 00;15;57;16

which is entirely free.

But you can get full people.

00;15;57;16 - 00;15;59;10

And for headsets

from anywhere in the world

00;15;59;10 - 00;16;03;25

can actually join together

in gravity sketch in that shared 3D space,

00;16;03;25 - 00;16;07;20

and you can sketch in the,

you can create full 3D models.

00;16;07;20 - 00;16;12;17

You can bring in high quality,

like engine blocks and model around them,

00;16;12;17 - 00;16;16;17

but also use it

as a, like a mock up tool.

00;16;16;17 - 00;16;17;25

And that's you reviewing them.

00;16;17;25 - 00;16;21;05

And so a number of large companies

have been using this who have got

00;16;21;08 - 00;16;24;18

teams across the world,

and you can work on a car or a shoe

00;16;24;18 - 00;16;27;06

and actually design

together in that, in that space.

00;16;27;06 - 00;16;31;16

And there's no ambiguity of a static image

or a render of

00;16;31;16 - 00;16;33;17

what does that particular angle look like?

00;16;33;17 - 00;16;36;14

You are walking around,

you're picking it up, you're looking at it

00;16;36;14 - 00;16;37;13

from different angles.

00;16;37;13 - 00;16;43;01

So we have many, many hours, in VR,

sharing each other.

00;16;43;01 - 00;16;44;20

And it's a spatial audio as well.

00;16;44;20 - 00;16;48;00

So you can if that, the left of you,

you can have it from the left,

00;16;48;03 - 00;16;50;06

but we're, learning from each other.

00;16;50;06 - 00;16;54;19

We build a small community around it

of other people who are also in that space

00;16;54;19 - 00;16;55;05

and being able

00;16;55;05 - 00;16;59;05

to do some amazing things in that,

and also a collaboration with OpenAI

00;16;59;05 - 00;17;04;05

to build, like a city in two hours with

AI generated images is an inspiration.

00;17;04;05 - 00;17;08;17

That was a good couple of years ago

now, but it was, that was really the

00;17;08;17 - 00;17;12;22

the epicenter of it,

of being able to work in that 3D space.

00;17;12;22 - 00;17;13;28

And it's 3D first.

00;17;13;28 - 00;17;19;21

And so we're still using those tools and

those processes now for, for client work.

00;17;19;24 - 00;17;23;04

So we've recently done two series on

00;17;23;04 - 00;17;25;10

YouTube

for a German toy company called slack.

00;17;25;10 - 00;17;29;24

And they provided, 3D models for the toys

or scans of them and the script,

00;17;29;27 - 00;17;31;10

some concept art, and that was it.

00;17;31;10 - 00;17;35;28

So we produced the entire,

thing in Unreal Engine,

00;17;35;28 - 00;17;38;28

but we did all the storyboarding

in gravity sketch.

00;17;38;28 - 00;17;43;17

So we have, with little 3D models

of the characters.

00;17;43;17 - 00;17;46;10

We've built up these environments

and we're moving around.

00;17;46;10 - 00;17;47;23

Someone's controlling the camera,

00;17;47;23 - 00;17;51;11

someone else is reading the script,

and someone is doing the puppeteering.

00;17;51;14 - 00;17;55;25

And so it was really,

very seamless workflow.

00;17;56;01 - 00;17;58;25

It allowed us to make a lot of decisions

very, very quickly.

00;17;58;25 - 00;18;00;06

We can iterate very quickly.

00;18;00;06 - 00;18;05;24

This no ambiguity or,

misunderstanding of certain things.

00;18;05;27 - 00;18;06;11

And this is

00;18;06;11 - 00;18;09;11

that kind of essence that we want,

00;18;09;11 - 00;18;13;06

we want everyone to work this way,

you know, some projects, you know,

00;18;13;07 - 00;18;17;12

we'll just send the client a headset

with everything on, and there you go.

00;18;17;12 - 00;18;20;05

And we will actually meet them

because it's a lot easier to communicate.

00;18;20;05 - 00;18;22;23

And actually, streamline these things.

00;18;22;23 - 00;18;27;05

It's like a 3D mirabaud

where you go actual added depth.

00;18;27;08 - 00;18;30;02

And in terms of handcrafting

00;18;30;02 - 00;18;34;29

and 3D modeling assets for all of our work

that we do is I'm much quicker

00;18;34;29 - 00;18;38;21

in gravity sketch manually,

because I have that depth aspect

00;18;38;21 - 00;18;42;19

and you're not constantly spinning

the 3D model from front to side to top.

00;18;42;19 - 00;18;45;12

You just, you know,

you've got that muscle memory.

00;18;45;12 - 00;18;49;08

And so as soon as that technology

became available to use in that,

00;18;49;08 - 00;18;55;04

in that context, so I that, that was,

you know, the still handcrafted,

00;18;55;04 - 00;18;57;12

but you're still using those,

those particular tools

00;18;57;12 - 00;19;00;25

because those skills are transferable,

like studying sculpture

00;19;00;25 - 00;19;03;25

at school and doing art

before studying architecture.

00;19;03;28 - 00;19;05;20

those skills are completely transferable.

00;19;05;20 - 00;19;07;09

You know, you take a master sculptor

00;19;07;09 - 00;19;12;12

into that kind of space and the things

that they can create, it's it's amazing.

00;19;12;15 - 00;19;13;11

Can you can you pay me

00;19;13;11 - 00;19;17;14

a little bit of a picture of,

you know, I've never used gravity sketch.

00;19;17;14 - 00;19;20;00

And, you know,

we're talking about handcrafting.

00;19;20;00 - 00;19;21;09

We're talking about sculptures.

00;19;21;09 - 00;19;25;16

Can you just walk me through kind of the,

I guess, the physical experience

00;19;25;16 - 00;19;26;05

of using this?

00;19;26;05 - 00;19;27;23

It sounds like there's a a headset.

00;19;27;23 - 00;19;29;08

Like, what are you doing with your hands?

00;19;29;08 - 00;19;32;08

Is it mouse and keyboard or like,

what's the input?

00;19;32;14 - 00;19;33;12

How are you?

00;19;33;12 - 00;19;35;15

Yeah,

it sounds like a really cool experience.

00;19;35;15 - 00;19;39;12

And I'm curious what it actually feels

like to use this thing.

00;19;39;15 - 00;19;40;00

Sure.

00;19;40;00 - 00;19;43;19

So, yes, you start with a headset

and you have a controller for each hand.

00;19;43;22 - 00;19;46;13

And on the controllers,

you've got some triggers,

00;19;46;13 - 00;19;48;28

and then you've also got,

grip buttons on the side.

00;19;48;28 - 00;19;51;17

So as you're, gripping with your,

your hands,

00;19;51;17 - 00;19;54;13

you can actually,

pick up certain objects moving around.

00;19;54;13 - 00;19;57;15

There's also a couple of other buttons

on there, as well

00;19;57;15 - 00;19;58;23

that you can add some joysticks.

00;19;58;23 - 00;20;02;10

So you're in this a vast 3D empty space,

00;20;02;10 - 00;20;06;00

and it's always good to go in

with a specific task.

00;20;06;00 - 00;20;09;02

And go in

and you can just use the trigger,

00;20;09;07 - 00;20;13;20

and as you move your hand through space,

you can just start drawing a line.

00;20;13;23 - 00;20;15;16

And that's how it just starts very simply.

00;20;15;16 - 00;20;21;09

So it starts very gestural,

very free flowing, very unconstrained.

00;20;21;12 - 00;20;24;12

And that's very freeing

because every single movement

00;20;24;12 - 00;20;30;09

that you do is very Vitruvian,

every movement and, movements and

00;20;30;12 - 00;20;31;10

subtle movement

00;20;31;10 - 00;20;35;06

really gets embedded

into what you, what you get to produce.

00;20;35;09 - 00;20;38;18

And so those are the

that's just the basic understanding.

00;20;38;18 - 00;20;41;15

But you can also, move

through that 3D space

00;20;41;15 - 00;20;45;25

so you can anchor it in your own room

and then walk around.

00;20;45;27 - 00;20;47;15

That's entirely fine.

00;20;47;15 - 00;20;48;26

So that you're looking at it.

00;20;48;26 - 00;20;54;26

But you can also in VR

scale is scale is almost immaterial.

00;20;54;26 - 00;20;57;19

You can, hold

both of the grip controllers

00;20;57;19 - 00;21;00;22

and you can scale the scene up.

00;21;00;28 - 00;21;03;26

And so it's nice and large in front

of you, Sam, working on the sculpture.

00;21;03;26 - 00;21;05;29

If I want to get on some details,

00;21;05;29 - 00;21;09;01

I can pull the controllers apart

and that brings it larger.

00;21;09;01 - 00;21;11;16

So I can get in there

and do the little details.

00;21;11;16 - 00;21;14;10

But if I do the reverse of that,

00;21;14;10 - 00;21;17;11

it'll scale everything down again

so I can make it very small.

00;21;17;11 - 00;21;19;13

I can put it on my desk.

00;21;19;13 - 00;21;22;02

And so gravity sketch can be,

00;21;22;02 - 00;21;25;15

an, a white environment

in of traditional VR.

00;21;25;16 - 00;21;28;17

But if you've got a headset

that has mixed reality capabilities,

00;21;28;17 - 00;21;31;25

you can remove that background entirely

and have the space that you're actually

00;21;31;25 - 00;21;34;27

in, which is a whole new level

00;21;34;27 - 00;21;39;04

of 1 to 1 scale,

I'm going to build, something that,

00;21;39;05 - 00;21;42;29

I'm going to build a chair, for example,

that I'm going to 3D print.

00;21;43;05 - 00;21;46;05

You can actually use a real chair

as a reference for the right kind

00;21;46;05 - 00;21;49;27

of heights and ergonomics

and be able to sculpt around it.

00;21;50;03 - 00;21;51;23

And that'll be 1 to 1.

00;21;51;23 - 00;21;56;14

So you can, if you sit on a real chair

and you've sculpted around it,

00;21;56;14 - 00;22;00;21

you can see what it looks like when you're

sat in that virtual chair in your space.

00;22;00;21 - 00;22;03;24

And it's such a freeing technology

because you can also

00;22;03;24 - 00;22;06;11

apply different materials to it

whilst you're there.

00;22;06;11 - 00;22;09;13

You can rotate different

lighting conditions as well.

00;22;09;13 - 00;22;13;04

So you have so much freedom

just to be in this space.

00;22;13;07 - 00;22;17;14

And iterate as much as you need to,

and then also invite others

00;22;17;17 - 00;22;18;23

and collaborate together.

00;22;18;23 - 00;22;23;02

And that's a really key component

of, of, of the future.

00;22;23;02 - 00;22;27;00

And where things are going

is, is that collaboration aspect and

00;22;27;03 - 00;22;30;14

keeping

the human essence, the whole together.

00;22;30;14 - 00;22;32;17

And that's

just the baseline of gravity sketch.

00;22;32;17 - 00;22;34;19

Before I implementation.

00;22;34;19 - 00;22;37;10

Well, I want to talk about

AI implementation in just a minute.

00;22;37;10 - 00;22;41;08

But just before we do, I mean,

as you as you describe it, Christian, it

00;22;41;11 - 00;22;44;27

you know, to me the, the,

the picture I'm getting, is it sounds

00;22;45;00 - 00;22;47;20

it sounds like engineering,

like it sounds like

00;22;47;20 - 00;22;51;03

engineers in

some capacity are using the space.

00;22;51;03 - 00;22;54;03

And, you know, it's similar to like what

you do traditionally with like,

00;22;54;03 - 00;22;57;29

you know, CAD drawings or AutoCAD,

but now suddenly in an immersive

00;22;58;02 - 00;23;01;08

3D space, are we,

you know, with, with organizations

00;23;01;08 - 00;23;06;15

you're working with or otherwise,

are they starting to employ or,

00;23;06;18 - 00;23;10;19

you know, contract engineers

or professionals

00;23;10;26 - 00;23;11;16

at this?

00;23;11;16 - 00;23;16;06

And you know, what, what are some of the

cases where they might want to do that?

00;23;16;09 - 00;23;17;06

Yes. Great question.

00;23;17;06 - 00;23;20;27

So there are a couple of individuals

in the community.

00;23;20;27 - 00;23;24;28

One of them, does he's very into bikes

00;23;25;04 - 00;23;29;15

and he has, cab models of his, his bike,

00;23;29;17 - 00;23;34;02

sort of stripped down

and he actually completely modeled in 3D.

00;23;34;03 - 00;23;37;29

Now he's a traditional clay sculptor

for body work, like you would

00;23;37;29 - 00;23;39;17

for traditional automotive.

00;23;39;17 - 00;23;44;23

And he's actually being able

to use this exact technology to go in

00;23;44;23 - 00;23;49;03

and a model with millimeter

submillimeter precision,

00;23;49;06 - 00;23;51;26

for all of the bodywork.

00;23;51;26 - 00;23;55;10

And so it's, it's amazing to go in

and watch him work

00;23;55;10 - 00;23;57;09

and see what he's been working on.

00;23;57;09 - 00;23;58;02

And then actually

00;23;58;02 - 00;24;02;12

to see the photos that he sends

of the manufactured pieces on the bike

00;24;02;12 - 00;24;06;01

as it's going around the track, it

with all of the stickers on the right,

00;24;06;04 - 00;24;09;05

the paintwork

and actually out there to be used.

00;24;09;05 - 00;24;12;08

So it really is a complete

end to end process.

00;24;12;08 - 00;24;13;29

From idea that you get.

00;24;13;29 - 00;24;17;03

You can put the headset on

and it can actually be fabricated

00;24;17;03 - 00;24;19;02

and implemented in the world,

in the real world.

00;24;19;02 - 00;24;23;19

So yeah, it's,

it's a really transformative technology

00;24;23;19 - 00;24;26;29

that I'm really surprised

hasn't been utilized more.

00;24;26;29 - 00;24;30;20

And it really does capture that,

that human element.

00;24;30;20 - 00;24;34;27

And that's, actual skill and precise.

00;24;35;00 - 00;24;37;03

Yeah, that's precise detailing.

00;24;37;03 - 00;24;38;02

And and.

00;24;38;02 - 00;24;40;19

Yeah, infusing that with that human touch.

00;24;40;19 - 00;24;44;16

Well, I'm curious if you see a future

where more and more engineers, you know,

00;24;44;16 - 00;24;48;05

whether it's a car company

or any sort of manufacturing like this

00;24;48;05 - 00;24;52;29

becomes a primary way, a primary form

for them, for collaboration.

00;24;52;29 - 00;24;56;23

Like, if it actually has an advantage over

just, you know, traditionally doing it

00;24;56;23 - 00;24;59;23

with a computer or paper or what have you.

00;24;59;27 - 00;25;01;03

I think I think it does.

00;25;01;03 - 00;25;02;01

I really do.

00;25;02;01 - 00;25;06;20

The, the architectural industry can also

benefit from it being in that space

00;25;06;27 - 00;25;10;13

where you can have it

as a digital model box, where instead of

00;25;10;13 - 00;25;14;06

getting a very expensive model

made of just one option,

00;25;14;06 - 00;25;15;03

you can actually look

00;25;15;03 - 00;25;18;29

around the digital version,

and then you can zoom down to 1 to 1 scale

00;25;18;29 - 00;25;21;26

and actually look what it looks like

being in that atrium

00;25;21;26 - 00;25;23;09

and the clients there as well.

00;25;23;09 - 00;25;27;15

And so, I was in the construction

industry for about 12 years

00;25;27;15 - 00;25;30;00

doing similar things

and actually looking at working

00;25;30;00 - 00;25;33;23

with the 3D models that,

engineers and architects are working with.

00;25;33;23 - 00;25;36;18

And during the design phases,

this is what architects were looking at.

00;25;36;18 - 00;25;38;27

They want to be in that space

and the clients are

00;25;38;27 - 00;25;41;27

can you push that wall back a little bit

and having it

00;25;42;04 - 00;25;46;06

parametrically set up so that you can

the architect can go, yes, of course.

00;25;46;10 - 00;25;49;19

And push that back and actually

then get to see what that looks like and,

00;25;49;25 - 00;25;52;26

and see different options, in real time.

00;25;52;26 - 00;25;55;25

And then being able

to see what it looks like rendered.

00;25;55;25 - 00;26;00;18

So being able to pick different materials

in hotel rooms, for example,

00;26;00;21 - 00;26;04;20

and pick different, hotel rooms

and look at the actual view

00;26;04;27 - 00;26;06;16

from that particular location.

00;26;06;16 - 00;26;08;18

Some of the projects we did in London,

it was.

00;26;08;18 - 00;26;11;23

Yeah, it was really, really interesting

where you've got that

00;26;11;26 - 00;26;14;29

not just 3D models,

but the data rich 3D models.

00;26;14;29 - 00;26;18;10

So we can actually look at the ductwork

and peel back

00;26;18;10 - 00;26;21;10

the ceiling and see

what is the system in there.

00;26;21;14 - 00;26;26;12

And the whole preemptive of,

oh, those pipes are actually intersecting

00;26;26;12 - 00;26;28;05

with that ductwork. That's a problem.

00;26;28;05 - 00;26;31;02

Let's fix that in the in the design phase

to save money

00;26;31;02 - 00;26;32;09

and time later on down the line.

00;26;32;09 - 00;26;35;10

So it is a technology

that's been around a while, but it's now

00;26;35;10 - 00;26;39;01

getting so accessible

that you just need the headset.

00;26;39;04 - 00;26;43;06

Previously you needed, two grand PC and

sensors in all four corners of the room.

00;26;43;06 - 00;26;44;26

So the technology's been around

for a while,

00;26;44;26 - 00;26;48;25

but it's now just becoming a lot

smaller, lighter and more accessible.

00;26;48;28 - 00;26;53;11

And from a technology perspective,

you know, that is the technology

00;26;53;15 - 00;26;57;04

sufficiently advanced

that this could be adopted at scale?

00;26;57;04 - 00;27;00;22

Or do you think it needs a

a little bit more revision and advancement

00;27;00;22 - 00;27;04;04

from a UI perspective,

from just a horsepower perspective,

00;27;04;07 - 00;27;07;13

you know, or is the adoption barrier

just human?

00;27;07;13 - 00;27;11;08

Is it just more

people need to try this and see this?

00;27;11;11 - 00;27;13;17

I think it's the latter initially.

00;27;13;17 - 00;27;18;24

We've got to a point now with with cloud

computing and streaming and, things that

00;27;18;27 - 00;27;22;25

we're now getting onto,

things like, Gaussian splatting

00;27;22;25 - 00;27;27;14

where you've got the, representation

of a 3D model, but it's very lightweight,

00;27;27;14 - 00;27;32;20

but it's capturing an entire environment

and having those over the top of design

00;27;32;20 - 00;27;37;17

3D models allows you to check and validate

the differences between those two.

00;27;37;20 - 00;27;41;20

And when the technology becomes

smaller and lighter,

00;27;41;21 - 00;27;45;23

it's going to be a lot easier for people

to, to try those things because

00;27;45;26 - 00;27;50;16

unless you're, a creative or a designer,

you know, those

00;27;50;21 - 00;27;55;02

these are the realms in which

this technology can be very, exciting.

00;27;55;02 - 00;27;58;10

Whereas if most of your work

is sort of spreadsheet or document driven

00;27;58;10 - 00;28;03;03

at the moment, you're less inclined

to be, wanting to do that in 3D

00;28;03;06 - 00;28;04;04

mouse and keyboard.

00;28;04;04 - 00;28;04;25

Fine.

00;28;04;25 - 00;28;08;13

But for me, I feel the mouse and keyboard

definitely has an expiry date

00;28;08;13 - 00;28;13;19

with being able to talk to computers

and being able to, just come in

00;28;13;22 - 00;28;16;15

and have that sort of commanding

00;28;16;15 - 00;28;19;28

gestural movement to guide AI.

00;28;19;28 - 00;28;24;11

The AI is all the geometry

in a very specific way to be able to, to,

00;28;24;13 - 00;28;26;06

to get what you want.

00;28;26;06 - 00;28;29;00

The, the yeah,

the computing there is fine.

00;28;29;00 - 00;28;31;15

Would be good to be able to stream stuff.

00;28;31;15 - 00;28;36;01

And, stream a lot of the heavy

lifting in the 3D models and,

00;28;36;04 - 00;28;40;26

and it is cloud rendering now,

but it'll soon be cloud generated.

00;28;40;26 - 00;28;46;09

So it'll be that mixture in that world

of being able to input a 3D model

00;28;46;09 - 00;28;52;04

for AI generation is also giving,

that context that it so needs.

00;28;52;07 - 00;28;55;09

so let's follow that thread

for a little bit on the AI generation,

00;28;55;09 - 00;29;00;12

because it sounds like as you describe it,

there's sort of a creepy world

00;29;00;12 - 00;29;03;18

here and set of capabilities

and then post AI.

00;29;03;18 - 00;29;07;13

So you mentioned city generation

with OpenAI, but can you give me

00;29;07;13 - 00;29;12;07

a little bit more flavor of what,

you know, AI generated content

00;29;12;10 - 00;29;15;01

looks like here and opens the door to

00;29;15;01 - 00;29;18;01

in terms of capabilities.

00;29;18;05 - 00;29;20;19

This is what I'm most excited about.

00;29;20;19 - 00;29;25;02

And for the last year,

I've wanted to implement,

00;29;25;02 - 00;29;31;10

and see how we can fuze XR and AI together

and then what the those two fuzed.

00;29;31;10 - 00;29;35;11

What industries and sectors

can they help influence and improve?

00;29;35;11 - 00;29;38;29

Because there's

tons of tons of improvement to be had.

00;29;38;29 - 00;29;41;24

And then there's automation

side of things as well.

00;29;41;24 - 00;29;46;01

So being able to come

in, it all started with an experiment.

00;29;46;01 - 00;29;51;08

So there was a tool that came out

called cria, which is a web based, image

00;29;51;08 - 00;29;56;10

generation tool, but it started with real

time, web based, real time generation.

00;29;56;10 - 00;30;01;07

So you could, move some shapes

around on the left side of the screen,

00;30;01;07 - 00;30;02;00

which was the input.

00;30;02;00 - 00;30;05;20

And then on the right,

you'd get the real time image generation.

00;30;05;20 - 00;30;10;01

So as you move the circle around,

that circle is then actually moving

00;30;10;01 - 00;30;12;21

in that, that generation. So

00;30;12;24 - 00;30;15;25

I was looking at this tool

and I was going like, I want this in VR.

00;30;15;26 - 00;30;20;11

I want to be working on a sculpture

and I want Korea to see what I'm

00;30;20;11 - 00;30;25;24

sculpting, and I want it to feed me,

inspiration whilst I'm sculpting.

00;30;25;24 - 00;30;27;00

I want to be in this environment.

00;30;27;00 - 00;30;30;25

I want to see what human eye, feedback

loops would look like.

00;30;30;25 - 00;30;33;16

What does that collaboration look like?

Was that part. It's a bit like.

00;30;33;16 - 00;30;34;25

And so I did exactly that.

00;30;34;25 - 00;30;39;08

I set up a, a virtual camera whilst

I'm sculpting that goes into the inputs,

00;30;39;08 - 00;30;44;18

and I have a basically

a floating chrome window in VR just off

00;30;44;18 - 00;30;48;16

to the side for me to see occasionally

and look over at what it's actually doing.

00;30;48;16 - 00;30;52;18

And, and so it allowed me to iterate very,

very quickly,

00;30;52;18 - 00;30;56;20

as I'm making changes, it's improving it

and coming up with different suggestions

00;30;56;26 - 00;31;00;12

as I'm changing different materials

or even different lighting conditions.

00;31;00;12 - 00;31;04;14

So just rotating the lighting or the

background that's affecting the lighting,

00;31;04;21 - 00;31;08;15

giving me some really crazy results

that I was like, okay, this is it.

00;31;08;15 - 00;31;10;28

This is a whole new direction.

That's great.

00;31;10;28 - 00;31;13;27

You're discarding most of it,

but you're taking the bits

00;31;13;27 - 00;31;17;24

that are there

and we can just improve so much quicker.

00;31;17;24 - 00;31;20;10

So it's a really it was an efficiency,

00;31;20;10 - 00;31;25;20

guided approach on being able

to do these kinds of things. And,

00;31;25;23 - 00;31;26;15

you know, the mind, the

00;31;26;15 - 00;31;30;11

mind wanders about how,

you know, we can bring in multiple

00;31;30;11 - 00;31;33;16

AI's trained on different tasks

to help with different things.

00;31;33;16 - 00;31;36;22

You know, if I'm designing a car

in this exact environment,

00;31;36;25 - 00;31;40;11

I could use a 3D selection

box over the headlights and I'll say,

00;31;40;12 - 00;31;43;18

give me different generate

different options just within that zone.

00;31;43;18 - 00;31;46;28

And you assign one.

I just do exactly that.

00;31;47;01 - 00;31;51;28

I want it to be a bit like a 1970s

Camaro style and merge this with this.

00;31;52;01 - 00;31;54;16

And it's happening all in real time.

00;31;54;16 - 00;31;58;21

And this is, this is the kind of,

future that I think we're very close to.

00;31;58;21 - 00;32;02;02

I can see connecting these,

these nodes of.

00;32;02;05 - 00;32;04;07

That's my ideal design environment.

00;32;04;07 - 00;32;08;26

I want to be orchestrating these

and this sort of a genetic workflow

00;32;08;26 - 00;32;12;20

of being able to get to the final result

00;32;12;20 - 00;32;16;04

quicker because it's just, problem

solving a brief.

00;32;16;04 - 00;32;20;01

It's just a series of, of parameters

and constraints, and you just have to keep

00;32;20;01 - 00;32;24;01

shaving off the no, no, no, no, no

and navigate through that part,

00;32;24;04 - 00;32;29;23

that path to get to that, that end result

and I'm, I'm in the,

00;32;29;23 - 00;32;33;19

very privileged, position

where I know what I want,

00;32;33;22 - 00;32;37;02

and I can see these things

and going through hundreds and hundreds

00;32;37;02 - 00;32;41;07

and thousands of images

of, of of AI generated images.

00;32;41;07 - 00;32;44;17

And I know what what looks good

and I know what I want to achieve.

00;32;44;23 - 00;32;47;09

So I can very quickly merge. Yes.

00;32;47;09 - 00;32;52;14

Take the best of breed of this option

12 and 24 and then start the whole process

00;32;52;14 - 00;32;57;06

again of merging those and having this

hierarchy family tree system.

00;32;57;09 - 00;32;59;06

So that's how I work

with image generation.

00;32;59;06 - 00;33;03;00

But I want that in 3D

and being able to do that

00;33;03;00 - 00;33;06;24

and and then again going back

to spatially having the options,

00;33;06;29 - 00;33;10;11

you know I've got option 12 on my left,

24 on my right.

00;33;10;12 - 00;33;12;14

That's let's have a look and see.

00;33;12;14 - 00;33;17;11

Being able to go through that

because anything that's designed in 3D

00;33;17;14 - 00;33;21;00

has many,

many aspects that can be, can be tweaked.

00;33;21;00 - 00;33;23;28

So yeah, very exciting.

00;33;23;28 - 00;33;26;00

It it's a really exciting prospect.

00;33;26;00 - 00;33;27;23

And and certainly in relation

00;33;27;23 - 00;33;31;19

to our conversation so far about,

you know, engineering and architecting,

00;33;31;22 - 00;33;36;27

you can see how it can, you know, rapidly,

as you said, improve efficiencies or,

00;33;37;00 - 00;33;41;06

you know, help you realize,

you know, ideas or you know, that

00;33;41;06 - 00;33;44;29

that kind of unleash the creativity

that that you already started with.

00;33;45;02 - 00;33;48;25

You know, you mentioned starting to think

about applications for different sectors.

00;33;48;29 - 00;33;52;13

I'm curious,

you know, as you reflect on this,

00;33;52;13 - 00;33;55;25

if there's any sort of most obvious

sectors

00;33;55;25 - 00;34;00;23

or applications that you think

would be early adopters here.

00;34;00;26 - 00;34;01;23

I think the one that would

00;34;01;23 - 00;34;07;03

benefit most and this is becoming,

a recent father, my daughter is 92.

00;34;07;06 - 00;34;12;21

Thinking about the world in which she will

grow up in and how she will learn.

00;34;12;24 - 00;34;14;24

And I think this is this is crucial.

00;34;14;24 - 00;34;16;24

A lot of people in the outer

space are going,

00;34;16;24 - 00;34;18;08

what do I what am I to teach my kids?

00;34;18;08 - 00;34;21;27

But for me, it's very specifically about

00;34;22;00 - 00;34;26;01

how she will be able to, to learn

and what's the best way to do this.

00;34;26;01 - 00;34;29;04

And I feel merging of XR

and AI in the education

00;34;29;04 - 00;34;31;03

space is going to be absolutely crucial.

00;34;31;03 - 00;34;34;11

And there's some very big players

moving heavily in that direction.

00;34;34;11 - 00;34;35;20

And I think that's that's right.

00;34;35;20 - 00;34;38;07

I feel it's

the area that needs most improvement.

00;34;38;07 - 00;34;42;00

It's still desks and textbooks now,

and we have

00;34;42;03 - 00;34;44;28

now let's replace

those textbooks with a headset.

00;34;44;28 - 00;34;47;22

Now imagine that that that headset,

it's it's light,

00;34;47;22 - 00;34;51;07

but it's also, can be used

collaboratively.

00;34;51;07 - 00;34;52;06

Again group work.

00;34;52;06 - 00;34;53;22

The whole point of being in school

00;34;53;22 - 00;34;58;11

is to socialize and work well with others

and group work and understand, together.

00;34;58;11 - 00;35;03;21

So imagine a giant beating heart in 3D

floating on the desk.

00;35;03;21 - 00;35;05;27

But you're working

with three others in your class

00;35;05;27 - 00;35;07;22

and you can really understand.

00;35;07;22 - 00;35;09;08

You can see how it's moving.

00;35;09;08 - 00;35;09;27

You can

00;35;09;27 - 00;35;14;06

live section it, and it's all there in 3D,

and you can put your head inside.

00;35;14;06 - 00;35;16;27

And that's if really understand

you're going to learn.

00;35;16;27 - 00;35;20;19

And that that visceral learning experience

is going to be so much more.

00;35;20;25 - 00;35;23;13

Sticky.

00;35;23;13 - 00;35;25;17

You just going to it's

going to be so much more,

00;35;25;17 - 00;35;28;27

it's going to stick

so much more than just a textbook.

00;35;29;00 - 00;35;31;18

And so if children can learn or all of us

00;35;31;18 - 00;35;35;13

can learn so much quicker,

in this kind of environment than.

00;35;35;16 - 00;35;37;23

Yeah, we're just efficiency.

00;35;37;23 - 00;35;39;19

We're going to be able to, do that.

00;35;39;19 - 00;35;41;19

And so there's that aspect.

00;35;41;19 - 00;35;45;26

But you then supercharge

that with, AI tools.

00;35;45;26 - 00;35;50;04

Imagine having, an AI tutor

00;35;50;04 - 00;35;53;12

alongside your real existing human

to tutor.

00;35;53;19 - 00;35;55;03

But over a number of years.

00;35;55;03 - 00;35;58;22

So after three, four years

that I tutor is going to know exactly

00;35;58;22 - 00;36;04;05

how you learn in the best way possible

and knows how you failed in the past.

00;36;04;05 - 00;36;07;25

It knows where it can push you

to get you that extra mile.

00;36;08;02 - 00;36;10;16

And it knows how you learn best.

00;36;10;16 - 00;36;14;11

Whereas this is the hardest thing

for teachers now is you as one teacher.

00;36;14;11 - 00;36;15;27

You have a class of 30.

00;36;15;27 - 00;36;19;18

There are maybe 6 or 7 learning styles,

and you can't mix up

00;36;19;18 - 00;36;22;01

your teaching approach

to be able to do that.

00;36;22;01 - 00;36;26;17

And so having this, and again,

another conversation's

00;36;26;17 - 00;36;28;00

just going forward from, from

00;36;28;00 - 00;36;31;25

that is if every child has their own

AI that's linked to the school

00;36;31;28 - 00;36;34;27

and the teacher has their own AI,

you can save on marking

00;36;34;27 - 00;36;39;09

because all of the AI's can can talk

and and go upstream to the

00;36;39;09 - 00;36;43;07

the teacher's AI and actually

then start to say, well look, here we go.

00;36;43;10 - 00;36;46;11

And you lot start to look at real time

data across the school.

00;36;46;11 - 00;36;50;10

And the headmaster can very quickly

pick up and pull up the information

00;36;50;10 - 00;36;53;19

of who's the best performing student

who needs a bit more help.

00;36;53;22 - 00;36;54;27

How is it all going?

00;36;54;27 - 00;36;58;20

And so yes, being able to have,

00;36;58;23 - 00;37;01;27

those practical experiments

like chemistry tests

00;37;01;27 - 00;37;05;04

or things that are actually dangerous

in the classroom, being able

00;37;05;04 - 00;37;10;03

to do those at home in that environment,

is, is the safest way.

00;37;10;03 - 00;37;12;03

But also we can do that now.

00;37;12;03 - 00;37;14;17

We have the technology now

people are working on it now.

00;37;14;17 - 00;37;19;18

And this is the most important thing

for me is, is being able to utilize

00;37;19;18 - 00;37;22;18

the tools that we have,

and being able to, to really,

00;37;22;19 - 00;37;28;01

make the most of it so they can benefit

this, this and this learning environment.

00;37;28;04 - 00;37;30;20

It's it's a really exciting prospect.

00;37;30;20 - 00;37;33;15

And you can, you know, as you're

talking through it, I'm imagining it.

00;37;33;15 - 00;37;34;24

And I've got young kids as well.

00;37;34;24 - 00;37;38;08

And so it's, it's it's exciting

to imagine this kind of, you know,

00;37;38;08 - 00;37;42;17

new frontier of, of, you know, learning

and the excitement that comes with that.

00;37;42;20 - 00;37;45;07

I love your kind of,

you know, your bullishness

00;37;45;07 - 00;37;48;22

and your excitement around the technology,

whether it's XR or R.

00;37;48;25 - 00;37;51;21

I did want to talk a little bit

about the flip side of that.

00;37;51;21 - 00;37;53;11

Because with any new technology,

00;37;53;11 - 00;37;56;11

there's sort of risks

and there's things we have to get right.

00;37;56;13 - 00;37;59;29

And I'm curious from your perspective,

Christian, you know what that looks like?

00;37;59;29 - 00;38;03;18

What are some of the,

you know, emerging areas of concern?

00;38;03;20 - 00;38;08;20

what are the things that we as either,

users of this technology

00;38;08;24 - 00;38;12;17

and consumers of some of the pieces here

or even the, you know, technology

00;38;12;17 - 00;38;15;29

companies creating

it need to be considerate of,

00;38;16;02 - 00;38;19;22

you know, to make sure that the the

this is the societal implications

00;38;19;22 - 00;38;21;23

are all positive.

00;38;21;26 - 00;38;22;17

Absolutely.

00;38;22;17 - 00;38;25;17

This is the the other side of the coin,

because there's

00;38;25;17 - 00;38;29;11

AI hype in the positive sense

and also the negative sense as well.

00;38;29;11 - 00;38;33;09

And there's there's

a lot of, of, of concern in the space

00;38;33;09 - 00;38;37;05

and a lot of

and all has to be navigated correctly.

00;38;37;05 - 00;38;37;28

Absolutely.

00;38;37;28 - 00;38;41;08

We have to, has to be tested

in, controlled

00;38;41;09 - 00;38;44;17

areas and before being released,

to, to the public.

00;38;44;17 - 00;38;49;08

But the, the most input like the largest

00;38;49;11 - 00;38;53;11

implication for me,

I feel is the security side of things.

00;38;53;11 - 00;38;58;02

And I'm not a massive security expert,

but the, the fact that you can clone

00;38;58;02 - 00;39;02;25

your voice, with three seconds of audio

and there's this whole image generation

00;39;02;25 - 00;39;03;14

side of things.

00;39;03;14 - 00;39;07;10

Now we have flux two

and Nano Banana Pro out there.

00;39;07;11 - 00;39;11;15

We're now getting this, going over this

threshold of

00;39;11;18 - 00;39;14;27

it's very difficult to believe anything

digital now.

00;39;15;00 - 00;39;18;11

And there's so many people that have

created incredible 3D works of art.

00;39;18;11 - 00;39;22;07

They've spent hours slaving over

and rendering traditionally.

00;39;22;14 - 00;39;25;09

And that goes out and people

go, oh, it's just it's just I

00;39;25;09 - 00;39;27;24

a computer did that for

you will know this.

00;39;27;24 - 00;39;31;11

The 25 plus hours

going into this particular thing.

00;39;31;14 - 00;39;34;25

And it's, it's really important for,

for people and creatives to,

00;39;34;28 - 00;39;39;23

to definitely label whether they've used

AI or not as a, as a thing

00;39;39;24 - 00;39;43;03

because there's still a lot of people,

and rightly so.

00;39;43;07 - 00;39;47;14

Very sensitive to, traditional art.

00;39;47;14 - 00;39;49;08

And that should still be done

in a certain way.

00;39;49;08 - 00;39;52;13

But I feel because people have had

the wool pulled over their eyes.

00;39;52;16 - 00;39;55;12

And so some people are using

00;39;55;12 - 00;39;58;19

AI and just maybe 20%

of their creative process.

00;39;58;19 - 00;40;00;19

And I've seen people recently posting

00;40;00;19 - 00;40;04;15

and actually putting watermarks

or say, AI assisted on there.

00;40;04;18 - 00;40;07;16

So there is a case of it's not fully

AI generated.

00;40;07;16 - 00;40;09;07

I didn't type in a magical prompt.

00;40;09;07 - 00;40;09;29

And there we go.

00;40;09;29 - 00;40;11;18

Copy paste. Off you go.

00;40;11;18 - 00;40;14;20

It's actually,

you know, part of the process

00;40;14;20 - 00;40;19;18

and you can use these tools

in any part of, of a creative process.

00;40;19;18 - 00;40;20;18

Absolutely.

00;40;20;18 - 00;40;25;03

But the main thing is not to

just take it verbatim.

00;40;25;06 - 00;40;28;19

You can't just copy and paste

and accept, expect that to just fly,

00;40;28;20 - 00;40;32;07

because people can tell,

people can really notice and they can

00;40;32;07 - 00;40;34;02

they can pick up on that very,

very easily.

00;40;34;02 - 00;40;36;20

And no one likes to be deceived

in this particular way.

00;40;36;20 - 00;40;39;24

So yes, being able to, clearly label

00;40;39;24 - 00;40;44;04

these things,

makes, makes a huge difference. And

00;40;44;07 - 00;40;47;06

this realism, it's,

00;40;47;06 - 00;40;49;23

it has a lot of problems

because you can very quickly

00;40;49;23 - 00;40;52;25

create a video impersonating someone else.

00;40;52;28 - 00;40;56;20

In trouble, you know, send money to,

you know, etc., etc..

00;40;56;20 - 00;40;59;28

And it's we have to educate.

00;40;59;28 - 00;41;03;16

And this is something I'm

more passionate about now is being able

00;41;03;16 - 00;41;06;25

to educate everyone

on these kind of improvements

00;41;06;25 - 00;41;10;13

and bring people up to speed with

what's possible so that they know you,

00;41;10;15 - 00;41;13;13

you know a safe word

that is only between you

00;41;13;13 - 00;41;16;25

or say phrase

or what happened on my fifth birthday.

00;41;17;02 - 00;41;21;22

When you're talking to someone on on a

call, if there's any kind of security

00;41;21;22 - 00;41;25;26

concern is a great way to understand,

that you're actually speaking.

00;41;25;26 - 00;41;30;08

And human verification

is absolutely important because you can

00;41;30;08 - 00;41;34;03

now real time deepfake webcam footage,

you know,

00;41;34;03 - 00;41;37;14

you can put anyone's face on yours

in real time and match the lighting.

00;41;37;14 - 00;41;41;23

So it's just educating

absolutely everyone, parents, grandparents

00;41;41;23 - 00;41;42;13

about this.

00;41;42;13 - 00;41;46;19

Because now that we've achieved,

like, complete

00;41;46;22 - 00;41;52;08

ultra realism, I think for me

is like a future prediction off of this is

00;41;52;11 - 00;41;54;10

when the camera was invented.

00;41;54;10 - 00;41;59;20

Impressionism

as an actual artistic movement, grew.

00;41;59;26 - 00;42;03;20

It was because that that level of realism,

you know, of of actually sitting there

00;42;03;20 - 00;42;08;01

and creating a, a ultra realistic,

00;42;08;01 - 00;42;12;03

oil painting over portraits was great,

was no longer needed anymore.

00;42;12;03 - 00;42;15;23

So artists created an entirely new,

avenue,

00;42;15;23 - 00;42;20;02

an entirely new movement

based on this as their form of expression.

00;42;20;05 - 00;42;21;14

And that's what I feel.

00;42;21;14 - 00;42;23;02

There's parallels,

and I feel we're on that,

00;42;23;02 - 00;42;26;10

that that cusp of actually

being able to shift over that.

00;42;26;10 - 00;42;30;06

Now we have the

the photo realistic AI generated thing.

00;42;30;06 - 00;42;34;10

And I think that's a really powerful thing

to learn from, from that particular

00;42;34;10 - 00;42;38;22

historical moment, because

what's going to come out next, what is the

00;42;38;25 - 00;42;41;08

the AI post AI equivalent

00;42;41;08 - 00;42;45;20

of Impressionism

that's going to, you know, and that has

00;42;45;23 - 00;42;46;11

a huge

00;42;46;11 - 00;42;50;00

influence on society and how things were,

what were perceived.

00;42;50;00 - 00;42;52;11

And yeah, it's really interesting.

00;42;52;11 - 00;42;56;16

Again, very passionate, but very exciting

to see what that potential might be.

00;42;56;18 - 00;42;59;28

As we reach that,

that side of things that snap.

00;43;00;03 - 00;43;02;17

And you know, in in my mind,

it comes back to

00;43;02;17 - 00;43;06;02

what we were talking about earlier

with sort of the two paths of the,

00;43;06;09 - 00;43;10;21

you know, artisanal,

willing to have a premium for anything,

00;43;10;21 - 00;43;14;19

you know, handcrafted

or created entirely by people versus

00;43;14;19 - 00;43;19;22

the doors opened by AI generated

or AI assisted.

00;43;19;25 - 00;43;23;26

Now, Christian, for you, I mean, you're

you're an artist, but you're also,

00;43;23;26 - 00;43;28;25

you know, a professional designer who,

you know, creates content and,

00;43;28;25 - 00;43;32;25

and, you know, commissioned works

by a series of different organizations.

00;43;32;28 - 00;43;36;08

Are you finding the

the organizations that you work with

00;43;36;08 - 00;43;39;24

and want you, and your peers

creating this content?

00;43;39;27 - 00;43;46;11

Are they sensitive to what's created

by AI, or are they more focused just on,

00;43;46;14 - 00;43;50;24

you know, the the ultimate feel of it or,

you know, experimenting?

00;43;50;24 - 00;43;54;00

How does how does I come into your,

I guess,

00;43;54;00 - 00;43;58;04

professional process for content creation?

00;43;58;07 - 00;43;59;13

It's a very valid point.

00;43;59;13 - 00;44;03;15

Basically,

we are very upfront about asking it.

00;44;03;15 - 00;44;07;08

So some some clients, some briefs come in

and they're like, absolutely no.

00;44;07;09 - 00;44;11;13

I bold underlined my like okay,

absolutely fine.

00;44;11;16 - 00;44;16;02

And some

if that isn't asked or said so upfront

00;44;16;02 - 00;44;20;11

then we ask the question are you adverse

to us using AI here, here and here?

00;44;20;11 - 00;44;23;17

And be very explicit about what it is

we're going to use it for.

00;44;23;20 - 00;44;28;28

And as part of the process

and not an actual, finished output,

00;44;29;01 - 00;44;32;13

and, and being able to understand

and most of the time clients

00;44;32;13 - 00;44;36;21

can't really tell what is our

AI output, and what it's been used.

00;44;36;21 - 00;44;40;04

And it is the

all of these generative tools,

00;44;40;04 - 00;44;42;04

just that they are still just tools.

00;44;42;04 - 00;44;45;06

It's going back to Photoshop

when it first came out

00;44;45;06 - 00;44;48;13

with the right skill,

and artistry and time,

00;44;48;13 - 00;44;52;00

you could learn how to doctor a photo

however you want and post that online.

00;44;52;07 - 00;44;55;19

It's just now accelerated accessibility.

00;44;55;25 - 00;44;58;02

And now anyone can use it

very, very quickly.

00;44;58;02 - 00;45;01;19

So yes, the clients,

it's making it very clear.

00;45;01;19 - 00;45;05;12

Some absolutely love

the efficiency side of things.

00;45;05;15 - 00;45;08;00

And there's one particular,

00;45;08;00 - 00;45;11;13

projects that we worked on,

it wasn't for a specific client,

00;45;11;13 - 00;45;16;18

but we had, a month to build this,

VR opera called Lucia VR.

00;45;16;18 - 00;45;19;20

And so I as a as a tool,

00;45;19;20 - 00;45;23;24

not from a creative perspective,

but actually, helped me to code

00;45;23;25 - 00;45;29;20

95% of this virtual reality

experience, is a very in-person event.

00;45;29;20 - 00;45;32;26

So we had eight seats

all facing inwards in a ring,

00;45;32;26 - 00;45;35;26

and every, participant had a headset on.

00;45;35;27 - 00;45;39;15

We also sort of first of its

kind of had a live opera singer

00;45;39;21 - 00;45;45;01

moving through the space whilst there,

looking at the experience on the headset.

00;45;45;04 - 00;45;50;28

And so it was, amazing to be able

to see, people's reactions.

00;45;50;28 - 00;45;53;28

Some people didn't know the opera singer

was there until the end,

00;45;54;01 - 00;45;58;16

but I knew what I wanted,

to show visually because the visuals,

00;45;58;16 - 00;46;01;20

even though it was it's a VR experience,

00;46;01;20 - 00;46;05;05

was only really a third of,

of this kind of production.

00;46;05;08 - 00;46;06;26

And so we wanted to have

00;46;06;26 - 00;46;10;18

a whole new angle on this, traditional

what's called the mad scene.

00;46;10;21 - 00;46;13;23

And it's traditionally, shown with,

00;46;13;23 - 00;46;16;25

the soprano, she's covered in a bloody

dress, she's holding a knife.

00;46;16;25 - 00;46;18;25

She's just murdered her betrothed.

00;46;18;25 - 00;46;21;25

And yes, it's all very, very dramatic.

00;46;22;02 - 00;46;25;14

And we wanted to do

a whole new perspective of

00;46;25;17 - 00;46;28;11

of her and the experience

that she'd gone through.

00;46;28;11 - 00;46;32;05

So if you'd gone through that experience,

you'd be in exactly the same position.

00;46;32;05 - 00;46;34;09

So she's singing in Italian.

00;46;34;09 - 00;46;36;29

What she's feeling in the

in this mad scene.

00;46;36;29 - 00;46;40;10

And we are, actually

producing visuals for that.

00;46;40;14 - 00;46;41;22

Not literal.

00;46;41;22 - 00;46;43;05

So she's talking about Snake King.

00;46;43;05 - 00;46;47;01

There is a giant snake there,

but we have this nice little town scene,

00;46;47;07 - 00;46;48;16

and a fountain.

00;46;48;16 - 00;46;53;03

And actually, the sound of her

descending into, madness.

00;46;53;03 - 00;46;54;16

And this hallucination was done

00;46;54;16 - 00;46;58;08

by, a particular instrument

called a glass harmonica.

00;46;58;11 - 00;47;01;24

And it sounds like, you know,

when you have a series of wine glasses

00;47;01;24 - 00;47;04;28

with different water levels and they're

doing this, it sounds just like that,

00;47;04;28 - 00;47;08;29

but it's the instrument is large bowls,

glass bowls all sat within.

00;47;08;29 - 00;47;10;26

It's when each other

00;47;10;26 - 00;47;13;26

laid down horizontally and it spins

and you play it like a piano.

00;47;14;03 - 00;47;18;25

And so this every time you heard that,

that was her descending.

00;47;18;25 - 00;47;21;01

And actually

we used a lot of visual motifs

00;47;21;01 - 00;47;23;02

of the glass bowls through the space.

00;47;23;02 - 00;47;27;11

And so, yeah, being able to create,

00;47;27;11 - 00;47;30;22

that experience in just a month, for,

00;47;30;28 - 00;47;34;28

a large number of companies,

we did a two day.

00;47;35;01 - 00;47;38;23

Yeah, it was over two days, eight

different sessions, and somewhere

00;47;38;24 - 00;47;40;14

with the live opera singing some words.

00;47;40;14 - 00;47;44;25

And it was really interesting

to get their input because a lot of people

00;47;44;25 - 00;47;47;22

who came from the opera space,

if you from the tech space

00;47;47;22 - 00;47;53;01

and were starting to merge those kinds

of, again, those kinds of industries where

00;47;53;04 - 00;47;55;24

it can benefit from the technology

and understanding

00;47;55;24 - 00;47;58;26

how much movement is not enough movement,

there's motion sickness.

00;47;58;26 - 00;48;05;11

Then what, opera goers felt like

it was happening because for some,

00;48;05;14 - 00;48;10;13

you can bring that headset into schools,

and that might be the first actual,

00;48;10;16 - 00;48;12;27

experience of opera they'll have.

00;48;12;27 - 00;48;17;26

And so with the recordings of the singer

on the online version was, yeah,

00;48;17;27 - 00;48;23;00

really, really powerful

to to understand how we can,

00;48;23;03 - 00;48;26;09

put the user in another position

so you're not a seat

00;48;26;09 - 00;48;30;16

at the back of the, of the opera house

or in the back of the theater,

00;48;30;19 - 00;48;32;13

you positioned

right on the edge of the stage

00;48;32;13 - 00;48;34;27

so you feel like you're in that

that particular set.

00;48;34;27 - 00;48;39;14

So, yeah, it was,

I wouldn't have been able to have actually

00;48;39;14 - 00;48;45;10

produced it, as quickly as I did

without using, Claude to be able to code.

00;48;45;13 - 00;48;50;24

But also we managed to get it done

because I knew exactly what I wanted.

00;48;50;24 - 00;48;54;22

The tool to produce,

you break it down into steps,

00;48;54;23 - 00;48;57;28

you know, and actually being able to,

write code

00;48;57;28 - 00;49;03;09

to procedurally, generate certain

things and actually do it,

00;49;03;12 - 00;49;05;23

all in runtime in the headset.

00;49;05;23 - 00;49;07;13

Was was the real challenge.

00;49;07;13 - 00;49;11;17

But yeah,

just being able to have that tool.

00;49;11;20 - 00;49;13;00

Yeah. Saved us so much time.

00;49;13;00 - 00;49;16;02

We would have needed

at least 2 or 3 devs full time for double

00;49;16;02 - 00;49;19;27

that amount of, period

to be able to produce something like that.

00;49;19;27 - 00;49;24;05

So being able to use these tools,

as allowing us to create

00;49;24;05 - 00;49;28;11

quicker is removing those,

some of those barriers, and being able

00;49;28;11 - 00;49;32;16

to actually like prototype these things

super, super quickly and make the, the key

00;49;32;16 - 00;49;36;18

decisions sooner,

is an absolute superpower at the moment.

00;49;36;21 - 00;49;38;02

It's it's really cool.

00;49;38;02 - 00;49;39;15

And it's also,

00;49;39;15 - 00;49;42;01

you know, I, I couldn't have told you

going into this conversation,

00;49;42;01 - 00;49;45;15

we were going to talk about,

you know, opera and virtual reality.

00;49;45;15 - 00;49;48;19

But, you know, I, I'm curious

because we started talking more about,

00;49;48;19 - 00;49;51;03

you know, engineering and architecture

and operations.

00;49;51;03 - 00;49;54;22

Now we're talking about entertainment or,

you know, somewhere

00;49;54;22 - 00;49;58;17

at the nexus of entertainment and,

you know, education potentially,

00;49;58;17 - 00;50;03;08

if we're, you know, increasing exposure

to opera, the clients that you work with.

00;50;03;14 - 00;50;07;24

what typically is, you know,

the purpose that they're driving for.

00;50;07;24 - 00;50;08;27

Are they looking for something

00;50;08;27 - 00;50;11;26

that's purely entertainment, for something

that's more education,

00;50;12;01 - 00;50;15;21

for something that's actually more sort

of operational for their business?

00;50;15;24 - 00;50;19;15

You know, what seem to be the most

the emerging trends

00;50;19;15 - 00;50;24;12

for what people are looking

to this technology to do for them.

00;50;24;15 - 00;50;26;09

The there's a couple of clients

00;50;26;09 - 00;50;30;24

who just want to have,

they just want creative content.

00;50;30;26 - 00;50;36;06

So that might be, a full CGI video,

or they specifically want to,

00;50;36;09 - 00;50;40;11

do a style change

on a particular personality,

00;50;40;14 - 00;50;44;06

and actually have them do things

in different transitions

00;50;44;06 - 00;50;46;27

that are just too expensive

to do in real life.

00;50;46;27 - 00;50;50;00

So I now enables us to,

00;50;50;00 - 00;50;55;08

digitally capture that individual

and be able to, style transfer different,

00;50;55;08 - 00;50;59;13

and phase between different scenes,

different settings.

00;50;59;16 - 00;51;04;01

And then also with, complete,

00;51;04;04 - 00;51;08;03

consent from their side

to actually clone their voice

00;51;08;03 - 00;51;11;22

and actually be able

to, to go on and extend the scripts

00;51;11;22 - 00;51;16;18

so that they don't have to actually,

sit there and, and do real it all off.

00;51;16;18 - 00;51;17;10

We can actually have

00;51;17;10 - 00;51;21;16

a bit more, flexibility with that,

being able to, to use that tool.

00;51;21;19 - 00;51;26;06

It's been, it's been really useful

to, to, to go down that route.

00;51;26;09 - 00;51;28;02

And then.

00;51;28;02 - 00;51;32;04

Yeah, less

so on the, helping businesses to use

00;51;32;04 - 00;51;35;12

AI or automates workflows

or anything like that.

00;51;35;12 - 00;51;39;16

I think there's still a lot of businesses,

especially here in the UK and especially

00;51;39;16 - 00;51;42;28

in the north of the UK,

that can just benefit from some basic

00;51;42;28 - 00;51;46;22

automations and basic implement,

implementations of, of AI.

00;51;46;22 - 00;51;52;04

And I think, I think we're really just,

and the tip of the iceberg.

00;51;52;04 - 00;51;54;20

And I think a lot of people

are expecting a lot of businesses,

00;51;54;20 - 00;51;58;11

small, small to medium that we,

we deal with, at the moment

00;51;58;11 - 00;52;01;12

are really they are experimenting with it.

00;52;01;19 - 00;52;04;11

And I don't think they're just quite ready

to make that leap

00;52;04;11 - 00;52;07;19

of faith, of full implementation

across the board.

00;52;07;19 - 00;52;12;10

And I feel like the, the school

scenario earlier, you know, it's there's,

00;52;12;12 - 00;52;13;19

a number of systems

00;52;13;19 - 00;52;16;19

being implemented in schools

now that just don't talk to each other.

00;52;16;25 - 00;52;21;26

And so we need one unified system

to be able to handle all of that

00;52;21;26 - 00;52;25;14

communication, which will streamline

everything and make things, you know,

00;52;25;17 - 00;52;29;17

remove the antiquated, processes.

00;52;29;20 - 00;52;31;21

But it's it just takes a bit of bravery.

00;52;31;21 - 00;52;35;14

And because a lot of people

aren't talking about what works

00;52;35;14 - 00;52;38;07

and what doesn't, a lot of people

are keeping very closed doors.

00;52;38;07 - 00;52;41;13

A lot of businesses

are not really sharing so much about,

00;52;41;16 - 00;52;45;10

I think people are quite embarrassed

about whether they're using AI or not.

00;52;45;10 - 00;52;49;09

For some people, it feels like

they're cheating or it's, you know,

00;52;49;09 - 00;52;53;10

unethical or it's not the right tool

to be using or how dare you?

00;52;53;10 - 00;52;56;25

It's now it's I think that will change.

00;52;56;25 - 00;53;00;02

once it takes a few

to knock that first domino

00;53;00;02 - 00;53;01;20

and actually say,

well, well, we're doing it.

00;53;01;20 - 00;53;03;07

This is a pilot project.

00;53;03;07 - 00;53;05;25

This works. We're talking about it.

00;53;05;25 - 00;53;09;28

I think that will really start to,

to help, businesses to

00;53;10;03 - 00;53;15;10

to make that leap, to have that confidence

and to really make the most of, of what

00;53;15;10 - 00;53;18;28

the, the, this technology

and its potential can really unlock

00;53;18;28 - 00;53;22;20

because there's so much

that can be benefited.

00;53;22;23 - 00;53;27;12

So, so in that spirit of experimentation

and what works and what doesn't,

00;53;27;12 - 00;53;31;04

I mean, this is this is such,

you know, such early days

00;53;31;04 - 00;53;34;04

in this space and,

you know, everybody's trying things out.

00;53;34;04 - 00;53;36;27

I'm curious, Christian,

00;53;36;27 - 00;53;38;29

when you think about people's

00;53;38;29 - 00;53;44;05

expectations or understanding of,

you know, anything around XR,

00;53;44;08 - 00;53;47;27

if there's some sort of confirmed

doesn't works

00;53;47;28 - 00;53;51;16

like some things that you find

people want or expect

00;53;51;16 - 00;53;54;24

this technology to do where you've said,

you know what, we've tried this.

00;53;54;27 - 00;53;58;23

That's actually not a great use case

for XR, and you have to sort of,

00;53;58;26 - 00;54;01;29

teach them some of these expectations.

00;54;02;02 - 00;54;02;20

Yeah.

00;54;02;20 - 00;54;03;26

It's we've had a

00;54;03;26 - 00;54;07;14

couple of clients come to us in the past

and said, we definitely want this.

00;54;07;21 - 00;54;11;18

And actually,

just by asking a few simple questions

00;54;11;21 - 00;54;14;15

to understand what it is

they're anti trying to achieve,

00;54;14;15 - 00;54;19;16

we can really then provide

a better technology solution for for that.

00;54;19;16 - 00;54;19;23

Okay.

00;54;19;23 - 00;54;22;25

So a lot of people say

oh I really want a VR experience.

00;54;22;25 - 00;54;26;21

But actually,

they didn't want headsets on their users

00;54;26;21 - 00;54;30;10

because they're too heavy or they,

you know, accessibility.

00;54;30;10 - 00;54;34;03

And they wanted like,

high, share ability.

00;54;34;06 - 00;54;37;27

So actually,

an AR effect would be the best case

00;54;37;27 - 00;54;40;04

to be able

to showcase what they wanted to do.

00;54;40;04 - 00;54;45;11

And so, understanding what what it is

that, businesses want to achieve

00;54;45;11 - 00;54;49;06

for that specific project or campaign

and the wider context

00;54;49;06 - 00;54;52;25

can really help identify,

because a lot of these,

00;54;52;25 - 00;54;56;16

we work with a lot of, agencies

that are already running larger campaigns.

00;54;56;21 - 00;54;59;29

So for some of the largest brands

that we've worked with, there's always

00;54;59;29 - 00;55;04;26

been, a much wider context, a much wider

rollout of, of specific,

00;55;05;03 - 00;55;08;03

marketing needs and capabilities

that they want to hit

00;55;08;06 - 00;55;12;15

and how these tools and technologies

can bolt onto that existing thing.

00;55;12;18 - 00;55;18;23

So R has been for the last five,

six years, really, really, powerful tool

00;55;18;23 - 00;55;23;05

to be able to have something that loads up

within seconds on your device.

00;55;23;05 - 00;55;27;00

It's 3D, it's interactive,

and it's engaging.

00;55;27;07 - 00;55;32;19

So great for, user generated content

and to actually communicate.

00;55;32;19 - 00;55;36;02

I think that the trend that

I've been seeing is brands and companies

00;55;36;02 - 00;55;39;14

really want to communicate

more with their audience.

00;55;39;14 - 00;55;42;20

They want to open up that

that avenue of communication with them,

00;55;42;25 - 00;55;46;25

have a bit more back and forth,

you know, with with more competitions and,

00;55;46;26 - 00;55;50;09

calling out, individuals

and making them feel,

00;55;50;12 - 00;55;54;00

you know, a

part of this part of the, these campaigns.

00;55;54;00 - 00;55;57;00

And it really is yeah, these technologies

00;55;57;00 - 00;56;00;10

can, can enable

absolutely is very difficult for VR.

00;56;00;10 - 00;56;03;10

That's the, the,

the number one thing at the moment is

00;56;03;15 - 00;56;08;28

the devices are still too heavy that this

they still get they still get warm.

00;56;09;02 - 00;56;12;08

And you know, you

you have to really adjust them

00;56;12;08 - 00;56;16;17

for the each user, you know,

you have to move the lenses closer

00;56;16;17 - 00;56;20;29

or further apart for every person's,

IPD or into pupillary distance.

00;56;20;29 - 00;56;23;04

So and then there's comfort.

00;56;23;04 - 00;56;25;26

And this is where when we were doing,

last year, we had this

00;56;25;26 - 00;56;30;08

we spent a good ten minutes

making sure every one and every, eight

00;56;30;08 - 00;56;34;01

participants, they were all comfortable

and that they could move their head around

00;56;34;01 - 00;56;38;02

freely, because if that headset moves,

or the vision goes blurry, that's it.

00;56;38;03 - 00;56;42;22

The experience, both for the rest of it

and this is the promise of glasses,

00;56;42;25 - 00;56;45;27

where it's all sorted,

you know, minor prescription.

00;56;45;27 - 00;56;47;24

And being able

to put prescriptions in them

00;56;47;24 - 00;56;52;00

mean that we've got that accessibility

and being able to do all of these things

00;56;52;00 - 00;56;56;10

and it just becomes,

completely seamless, that integration.

00;56;56;13 - 00;56;56;22

Yeah.

00;56;56;22 - 00;57;01;23

So for, for business leaders

who are, let's say, XR curious,

00;57;02;00 - 00;57;05;26

what would be your advice to them on,

you know, the best way to dip a toe

00;57;05;26 - 00;57;09;19

and where should they get started

and how should they get started?

00;57;09;22 - 00;57;10;09

Absolutely.

00;57;10;09 - 00;57;13;17

If it's if it's a creative business,

we'll,

00;57;13;18 - 00;57;17;28

we'll go with that, that section first

because I feel that that's the,

00;57;17;28 - 00;57;22;17

that's the easy one is being able to

if anyone is in the creative space

00;57;22;17 - 00;57;27;07

and they want I the view

if they're dealing with 3D full stop,

00;57;27;13 - 00;57;31;19

it's it's an absolute no brainer

being able to bring those 3D elements

00;57;31;22 - 00;57;35;07

into, the headset

and into that 3D space to

00;57;35;10 - 00;57;39;24

just to look at them at the very least,

and mark them up to share with others.

00;57;39;27 - 00;57;42;21

And especially having, overcoming

00;57;42;21 - 00;57;47;05

the geographical differences is really,

really, very, very powerful.

00;57;47;05 - 00;57;51;15

And that's the, the really quick

and easy ones being able to just,

00;57;51;15 - 00;57;55;08

iterate, just design and communicate

with each other.

00;57;55;11 - 00;57;59;26

In that case, you can still,

in that environment, do 2D things.

00;57;59;26 - 00;58;00;19

Absolutely.

00;58;00;19 - 00;58;04;29

If you're doing, you know, sticky notes

on a whiteboard kind of exercises or,

00;58;05;01 - 00;58;09;05

you know, just trying to plan things out,

having all of that there is great.

00;58;09;05 - 00;58;14;17

And gravity captures it also has a web

based window into that 3D space.

00;58;14;20 - 00;58;17;06

So they can still fly around

without a headset.

00;58;17;06 - 00;58;20;14

Or if someone has, VR nausea,

which is still a thing.

00;58;20;14 - 00;58;23;14

Sadly,

you can still go in and use a little laser

00;58;23;14 - 00;58;27;10

pointer

and stick it notes into this 3D space.

00;58;27;10 - 00;58;29;05

As people are designing.

00;58;29;05 - 00;58;32;05

So it really is

just removing the friction,

00;58;32;11 - 00;58;36;13

and some of the bureaucracy of,

of, of paperwork and back and forth

00;58;36;13 - 00;58;40;23

and versioning when you can just do it

all real time in these kind of

00;58;40;23 - 00;58;43;05

sessions very, very quickly.

00;58;43;08 - 00;58;43;17

If you're

00;58;43;17 - 00;58;46;25

noncreative business,

it's, it's a hard sell.

00;58;46;26 - 00;58;50;24

And we're not at the point where we can,

00;58;50;24 - 00;58;55;17

telepresence holograms

in a really nice way. Yet

00;58;55;20 - 00;58;58;13

Matt has been working on codec

avatars and eye

00;58;58;13 - 00;59;01;15

tracking and face tracking

to be able to get those things in.

00;59;01;17 - 00;59;05;09

And then, there's many others

working on those kinds of things as well.

00;59;05;09 - 00;59;10;14

But yeah, it's until

until they're in a lighter form factor.

00;59;10;17 - 00;59;13;06

These dots are starting

to, to come together.

00;59;13;06 - 00;59;16;00

Yeah. It's it's interesting.

00;59;16;00 - 00;59;19;21

There's some other immersive experiences

where you have screens,

00;59;19;23 - 00;59;22;23

but, you know,

you might have gloves or controllers

00;59;22;23 - 00;59;25;21

and still be able to control things

happening in that 3D space.

00;59;25;21 - 00;59;30;25

But we're missing this, Tony Stark,

you know, 3D hologram style.

00;59;30;25 - 00;59;34;21

And until that comes, you know, that's

that's the race.

00;59;34;21 - 00;59;39;15

What's going to get there first, super

lightweight glasses or that either way,

00;59;39;15 - 00;59;42;21

these

the way we interact with 3D, being able

00;59;42;21 - 00;59;46;08

to pick it up and and immersive and,

and being able to do this

00;59;46;08 - 00;59;51;01

kinds of things is, is really key

because things like VR training, you can

00;59;51;04 - 00;59;55;01

jump in and yeah, you can do 30 hours of,

00;59;55;01 - 00;59;59;19

of a simulation of a particular dangerous

exercise, for example.

00;59;59;22 - 01;00;04;25

And actually your, your mind doesn't,

can't tell the difference

01;00;04;25 - 01;00;08;24

between these simulated things

that you've done and actual memories.

01;00;08;24 - 01;00;11;10

So when you're going in

and doing the real thing, you,

01;00;11;10 - 01;00;15;13

you feel like you've done this before,

and it's becomes a lot more sort

01;00;15;13 - 01;00;16;27

of muscle memory orientated.

01;00;16;27 - 01;00;19;26

So these VR and those kinds of things.

01;00;19;26 - 01;00;24;09

So some clients of,

of really been looking into that VR

01;00;24;09 - 01;00;25;08

training side of things.

01;00;25;08 - 01;00;29;26

So what can be supplemented

with their existing training system

01;00;29;26 - 01;00;33;24

that we can actually have,

an option on the side to

01;00;33;24 - 01;00;35;12

then do some simulated things

01;00;35;12 - 01;00;38;12

and that can be done

in, in sessions and group work and,

01;00;38;17 - 01;00;42;01

you know, multiple people in that space

and all of that can be custom built

01;00;42;08 - 01;00;45;10

and even quicker now with with these

AI tools as well.

01;00;45;10 - 01;00;49;27

So there's, there's a whole, enterprise

section there for, for XR.

01;00;49;27 - 01;00;50;25

Absolutely.

01;00;50;25 - 01;00;55;13

my work for now is moving more into,

iterating the,

01;00;55;13 - 01;01;00;12

the 2D image side of things, then

running that through image to 3D tool,

01;01;00;13 - 01;01;04;19

and then bringing those 3D elements in

and then being able to sort of chop

01;01;04;19 - 01;01;07;19

and change

and really play around with those, is

01;01;07;22 - 01;01;11;02

and that fits in really well

to just the production side of things.

01;01;11;02 - 01;01;16;26

If, if a 3D model that you can generate,

so much quicker than doing it by hand,

01;01;16;29 - 01;01;21;02

means that if it gets you 80%

or 60% of the way there,

01;01;21;03 - 01;01;25;26

then it's a really great starting point

because some people go into VR next on

01;01;25;26 - 01;01;30;22

into that blank space and just they get

sort of decision paralysis on

01;01;30;22 - 01;01;33;22

what do I do first and how do I start this

and how do I approach this.

01;01;33;22 - 01;01;39;02

So anyone going into Excel should really

going with a specific, goal in mind.

01;01;39;02 - 01;01;44;02

And specific task bringing reference

images, reference 3D models, whether

01;01;44;05 - 01;01;48;28

I generate it or not, and being able

just to start that, processes.

01;01;49;01 - 01;01;51;22

Yeah. Because a lot of people just

01;01;51;25 - 01;01;52;27

see it and don't try it.

01;01;52;27 - 01;01;56;08

And you have to try it

to, to really understand. So.

01;01;56;11 - 01;02;03;29

Cool.

01;02;04;02 - 01;02;04;16

My pleasure.

01;02;04;16 - 01;02;06;28

Thank you for having me.

01;02;06;28 - 01;02;08;10

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